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Sep 29, 2012
09/12
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ronald reagan was good at the jokes. you also have to know how to deliver them. >> absolutely. >> you can have great jokes written, but if you say them at the wrong minute it will backfire. >> a couple seconds left. what's your favorite debate moment in history? >> i like 1980 when ronald reagan said, ther said, "there o again." there's a whole wikipedia site on that quote. it allowed ronald reagan to triumph. >> great to talk to you today. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. take care. >> lots to look forward to next week. all right, what would you do for the man or woman you love? up next, how this man made his girlfriend's dream come true. stay with us. [ owner ] i need to expand to meet the needs of my growing business. but how am i going to fund it? and i have to find a way to manage my cash flow better. [ female announcer ] our wells fargo bankers are here to listen, offer guidance and provide you with options tailored to your business. we've loaned more money to small businesses than any other bank for
ronald reagan was good at the jokes. you also have to know how to deliver them. >> absolutely. >> you can have great jokes written, but if you say them at the wrong minute it will backfire. >> a couple seconds left. what's your favorite debate moment in history? >> i like 1980 when ronald reagan said, ther said, "there o again." there's a whole wikipedia site on that quote. it allowed ronald reagan to triumph. >> great to talk to you today. thank you so...
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Sep 30, 2012
09/12
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WJLA
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ronald reagan won because the country was in bad shape. he offered policies to get us out of that and they worked. you compare the recovery under obama, this year the economy's improved 1.6%. last year, 1.8%. the year before, 2.4%. that's the best he's done. after the recession, when reagan was president, the first year 4.5% economic growth. the second year, 7.5% economic growth. the idea that we can't have a growing economy is something that is something that's not being talked about enough, anywhere except for the dining room table. >> the interesting thing about the race the national equilibrium is about two-point race. and if mitt romney has a good four or five days, this race will dwindled down to a two-point race. at that point in time, that's when the environmental factors, all begin to take place in this. but the biggest change that has happened in this, mitt romney wanted this to be a referendum election. the problem is it became a referendum, not on barack obama it became a referendum on him. at some point, he has to fix that rea
ronald reagan won because the country was in bad shape. he offered policies to get us out of that and they worked. you compare the recovery under obama, this year the economy's improved 1.6%. last year, 1.8%. the year before, 2.4%. that's the best he's done. after the recession, when reagan was president, the first year 4.5% economic growth. the second year, 7.5% economic growth. the idea that we can't have a growing economy is something that is something that's not being talked about enough,...
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mitt romney, and i'm not comparing it to 1980 and ronald reagan being an appealing alternative, but jimmy carter, not a bad alternative. i think that could eat into the president's support and more than just the undecided voter support. what do you think? >> not necessarily. because what voters too often and we see this and a lot of data. they complain and gripe, especially well as down in the polls. when it comes down to it on election day they usually hold their nose, suck it up and vote for their party leader. that is why we have undecided voters. usually if you're a member of your party by election day you aren't going to vote for the guy neil: i know you do this in far more exhaustive detail that idea, but i am old and remember 1980 and to remember that the undecided voters at the time, jumped either ronald reagan or jimmy carter. it turns out a lot more did. i'm not saying that there is some truth to what you're saying. those who are leery of that party or the candidate of that party would jump, could jump if they are disenchanted enough with their own who choice or intrigued enough
mitt romney, and i'm not comparing it to 1980 and ronald reagan being an appealing alternative, but jimmy carter, not a bad alternative. i think that could eat into the president's support and more than just the undecided voter support. what do you think? >> not necessarily. because what voters too often and we see this and a lot of data. they complain and gripe, especially well as down in the polls. when it comes down to it on election day they usually hold their nose, suck it up and...
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Oct 2, 2012
10/12
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. >>> bill o'reilly went on to say if mitt romney does well like ronald reagan did against jimmy carter he can immediately become the frontrunner. all things change because of this. >> an attack left four americans dead. still a big talker this morning the white house has come under severe scrutiny for the official version of what happened. the administration originally called it a spontaneous attack. >> a whole lot of folks. >> donald rumsfeld talked to greta about. he slammed the administration for the foreign policy saying it's a failed model. >> i think the foreign policy of this administration for 3 and a half, four years now has been one of a step back in the phrase that came out of the white house to lead from behind. which you can't lead from behind. leaders lead from the front. the economic management of our country has told the world that we are in decline and it was sufficient that the vice president of the united states had to go at the convention and say we are not incal decline. why did he have to say that? it is clear the country is managing its economic apairs faa way th
. >>> bill o'reilly went on to say if mitt romney does well like ronald reagan did against jimmy carter he can immediately become the frontrunner. all things change because of this. >> an attack left four americans dead. still a big talker this morning the white house has come under severe scrutiny for the official version of what happened. the administration originally called it a spontaneous attack. >> a whole lot of folks. >> donald rumsfeld talked to greta about....
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Sep 29, 2012
09/12
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ron versus reagan. ronald reagan. in 1980, they did both. they dispelled notions about his challengers. in this case that ronald reagan was in the cowboy that would recklessly send us down the path to armageddon. he did that with a smile with one simple question. are you better off than you were four years ago. very simple and very clear and very ronald reagan. for one mitt romney, that is all that this race comes down to. whether we can keep it simple and clear. after all the noise, leave voters understand that this election really comes down to. are you better off than you were four years ago. because that could make a compelling case. we will see next week in denver for the first day, october 3, we are back for each and everyone there every one there after we started, 8:00 p.m. eastern time. we are with you through midnight. i'm telling you folks that when we told you from the very beginning, the caucuses, primaries, a lot of people talk about this. it is your money and your life in your future. we think you deserve it. we mean it. with t
ron versus reagan. ronald reagan. in 1980, they did both. they dispelled notions about his challengers. in this case that ronald reagan was in the cowboy that would recklessly send us down the path to armageddon. he did that with a smile with one simple question. are you better off than you were four years ago. very simple and very clear and very ronald reagan. for one mitt romney, that is all that this race comes down to. whether we can keep it simple and clear. after all the noise, leave...
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Sep 29, 2012
09/12
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ronald reagan dispensed with those detail by telling jimmy carter, there you go again. it was on to ron and what he would do differently, the things that define ronald reagan. debates can confirm a trend or dispell a notion. in 1980 they did both. they confirmed voters' doubts about the incumbent but dispelled notions about the challenger, that ronald reagan was not a cowboy who was recklessly send the nation down the path to armageddon with a style that was simple but never questionable: are you better off than four years ago? very simple. very clear. very reagan. for mitt romney that is what it comes down to, whether he can keep it simple, clear, and after all the noise, leave voters understanding what this election really comes down to. are you better off than you were four years ago? he does that, he can make a compelling case. he does not, he's an over and done case. we will see next week. we are there in denver, october 3. we are back for each and every debate after. we start at 8:00 p.m. eastern. we are with you through midnight. folks, we told you from the very
ronald reagan dispensed with those detail by telling jimmy carter, there you go again. it was on to ron and what he would do differently, the things that define ronald reagan. debates can confirm a trend or dispell a notion. in 1980 they did both. they confirmed voters' doubts about the incumbent but dispelled notions about the challenger, that ronald reagan was not a cowboy who was recklessly send the nation down the path to armageddon with a style that was simple but never questionable: are...
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i compare the the campaign i ran with ronald reagan had an off night, he was ten points ahead and basically went on to win by 18. he had a very strong second debate. lou: every candidate should try to emulate? >> my sense is this president came under attack on both his performance, his own performance , his policies, and the good thing is once again romney kept coming back. this is what you do to create jobs. it was almost editorial. lou: editorial. he took to school. and you really see this -- >> you mentioned tonight. i want to repeal the franc. he says medicare should be a voucher. the you think these are popular policies? president obama said if you have such great plans for what you're going to do to replace dodd-frank. >> don't keep a secret. he did not produce. lou: the only thing i actually heard the president's taken i did not hear him say what you just said, by the way. i heard and basically say that if you have a secret it because you don't want it to be heard because it's too good. >> i have heard debate contrivances like that tie just as you have over the course of our career.
i compare the the campaign i ran with ronald reagan had an off night, he was ten points ahead and basically went on to win by 18. he had a very strong second debate. lou: every candidate should try to emulate? >> my sense is this president came under attack on both his performance, his own performance , his policies, and the good thing is once again romney kept coming back. this is what you do to create jobs. it was almost editorial. lou: editorial. he took to school. and you really see...
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Sep 29, 2012
09/12
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here's one of the most famous debate responds of all time, then governor ronald reagan and president jimmy carter. will we see a similar moment this time around? >> governor reagan again, typically is against such a proposal. >> governor, there you go again. ♪ leaving my homeland ♪ pling a lone hand ♪ my life begins today ♪ ♪ fly by night away from here ♪ ♪ change my life again ♪ ♪ fly by night, goodbye my dear ♪ ♪ my ship isn't coming ♪ and i just can't pretend oww! ♪ [ male announcer ] careful, you're no longer invisible in a midsize sedan. the volkswagen passat. the 2012 motor trend car of the year. that's the power of german engineering. droid does. and does it launch apps by voice while learning your voice ? launch cab4me. droid does. keep left at the fork. does it do turn-by-turn navigation ? droid does. with verizon, america's largest 4g lte network, and motorola, droid does. get $100 off select motorola 4g lte smartphones like the droid razr. for the spender who needs a little help saving. for adding "& sons." for the dreamer, planning an early escap
here's one of the most famous debate responds of all time, then governor ronald reagan and president jimmy carter. will we see a similar moment this time around? >> governor reagan again, typically is against such a proposal. >> governor, there you go again. ♪ leaving my homeland ♪ pling a lone hand ♪ my life begins today ♪ ♪ fly by night away from here ♪ ♪ change my life again ♪ ♪ fly by night, goodbye my dear ♪ ♪ my ship isn't coming ♪ and i just can't...
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Oct 3, 2012
10/12
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that ronald reagan moment. that, you know, quip no one was anticipating that seems to sort of, you know, grab the public attention. it can be for good or ill. for both of the candidates the challenge is really to be relaxed enough to get the message across in a way but not so loose you trip over your tongue and cause yourself harm. candidly it's mitt romney who has had the problem in the appearances lately. in that regard, i think if he makes it through without doing anything like that, that alope puts him in game. >> bret: one thing you watch is the dynamic between the two. what is not spoken. just body language, kind of the interaction. what do r you looking for in the first 30 minutes let's say? >> we have never seen them together on a stage. they met once or twice before. it will be interesting to see how it plays out. we can think of one debate where the body language between the two candidates made a difference. bush versus gore, gore acted supercilious and condescending toward governor bush. it played ba
that ronald reagan moment. that, you know, quip no one was anticipating that seems to sort of, you know, grab the public attention. it can be for good or ill. for both of the candidates the challenge is really to be relaxed enough to get the message across in a way but not so loose you trip over your tongue and cause yourself harm. candidly it's mitt romney who has had the problem in the appearances lately. in that regard, i think if he makes it through without doing anything like that, that...
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Sep 30, 2012
09/12
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WMAR
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ronald reagan won because the country was in bad shape. you compare the recovery under obama, this year the economy's improved 1.6%. that's the best he's done. after the recession, when reagan was president, the first year 4% economic growth. the idea that we can't have a growing economy is something that is not being talked about enough, anywhere except for the dining room table. >> the interesting thing about the race the national equilibrium is about two-point race. if mitt romney has a good five days, this race will dwindled down to a two-point race. the environmental factors, all begin to take place. the biggest change that has happened in this, mitt romney wanted this to be a referendum election. at some point, he has to fix that really quick. >> and i think the time is running out. you get three chances. of course, his vp pick hasn't turned out to be so good. we'll get more into that. the convention speech. everyone know that wasn't a speech that really gave us a better idea about mitt romney and the third opportunity has become the
ronald reagan won because the country was in bad shape. you compare the recovery under obama, this year the economy's improved 1.6%. that's the best he's done. after the recession, when reagan was president, the first year 4% economic growth. the idea that we can't have a growing economy is something that is not being talked about enough, anywhere except for the dining room table. >> the interesting thing about the race the national equilibrium is about two-point race. if mitt romney has...
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Oct 6, 2012
10/12
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in fact, you know, the unemployment rate for ronald reagan was higher and the unemployment rate for the president. >> well, it went to 10.8, i believe... and i mean, if you are saying that ronald reagan inherited a worse economy. >> gregg: he did. >> i don't know how you can make the argument. >> gregg: are you kidding. >> we lost 800,000 jobs. >> gregg: unemployment was higher, inflation was higher and interest rates were higher. >> in twa2009, january we lost 741,000 jobs and if that trend continued, we almost had a second great depression... >> gregg: i hear you. i hear you. justin, a lot of folks are afraid to invest in the stock market. interest rates are so incredibly low, the opposite of what ronald reagan had and, you can't really invest in cd's and money market account and that is not keeping up with inflation. and that left americans with, you know, stagnant savings account and diminished personal wealth and that is an important election factor, too? >> well, especially, it is an important election factor, especially here in the state of florida, we have a large number of seni
in fact, you know, the unemployment rate for ronald reagan was higher and the unemployment rate for the president. >> well, it went to 10.8, i believe... and i mean, if you are saying that ronald reagan inherited a worse economy. >> gregg: he did. >> i don't know how you can make the argument. >> gregg: are you kidding. >> we lost 800,000 jobs. >> gregg: unemployment was higher, inflation was higher and interest rates were higher. >> in twa2009, january...
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reagan during the last recession when they was a huge increase in government spending to get out of that recession and guess what it worked because that's how economics works we had a huge buildup in our defense budget a necessary one because we had a progressive president as carter who had unilaterally disarmed this country the same way this president had it that's absolutely look i think course is right about the the dates you can move i believe a look at this study they moved what happened in two thousand and nine. with the stimulus package which was well three quarters are you sollars the two thousand and nine year of two thousand and nine was the last bush budget yes but in the in the while you had no say in the way that the congressional budget office scores these things. the stimulus package that barack obama signed into law in two thousand and nine is a part of the judea allison on budget budget and so in this particular study it's given to bush with a bigger there's a bigger question here which is spending by not not budgetary spending but non budgetary spending spending on
reagan during the last recession when they was a huge increase in government spending to get out of that recession and guess what it worked because that's how economics works we had a huge buildup in our defense budget a necessary one because we had a progressive president as carter who had unilaterally disarmed this country the same way this president had it that's absolutely look i think course is right about the the dates you can move i believe a look at this study they moved what happened...
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Oct 5, 2012
10/12
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the incumbent was ronald reagan and got his clock cleaned by mondale. trying to win the first debates against their challengers was 0-3. the next time an incumbent president is facing a challenger is 1992. the incumbent president is george h.w. bush. his major party challenger is a young man from arkansas. there's also this other guy with the big ears and it's the other guy with the big ears who wins the first debate. >> the day after, victory for perot. clinton hold his own. trouble for the president. there's no one scorecard for determining who won and who lost last night, but a consensus does seem to be emerging. ross perot, the star of the night because no one knew what to expect. bill clinton just good enough. and president bush, he'll have to do much better. >> by morning, what had been last night's analysis had become conventional wiwisdom. in the headlines. on the "today" show. >> clinton did what he had to do and bush did not. >> and in instant polls. >> those polls show the president finishing third among people who watched the first debate. >
the incumbent was ronald reagan and got his clock cleaned by mondale. trying to win the first debates against their challengers was 0-3. the next time an incumbent president is facing a challenger is 1992. the incumbent president is george h.w. bush. his major party challenger is a young man from arkansas. there's also this other guy with the big ears and it's the other guy with the big ears who wins the first debate. >> the day after, victory for perot. clinton hold his own. trouble for...
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Sep 30, 2012
09/12
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in 1980, they knew jimmy carter was going to look at ronald reagan and say, "you were against medicare" at the beginning, happened to be true. but reagan looked at him, shook his head and said, "there you go again." it was really a comment not just on that medicare answer but on everything that carter had said. that's when a zinger works. >> schieffer: what do you think the obama people think they're going to hear from romney? >> one thing that's being telegraphed by the romney folks -- and i wouldn't have telegraphed it if this was a question i wanted to ask-- do you want another four years like the last four years. the president has heard that-- >> that's a question people ask. >> i know, but ronald reagan was smart enough not to say are you better off today than you were four years ago until he got to the debate. the president knows that question is going to be asked and he will be prepared to answer it. five of the last six times an incumbent debated a challenger in a debate, the challenger won. >> that's the question they are asking. they know they are not better off from four yea
in 1980, they knew jimmy carter was going to look at ronald reagan and say, "you were against medicare" at the beginning, happened to be true. but reagan looked at him, shook his head and said, "there you go again." it was really a comment not just on that medicare answer but on everything that carter had said. that's when a zinger works. >> schieffer: what do you think the obama people think they're going to hear from romney? >> one thing that's being...
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Oct 2, 2012
10/12
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successful pattern to follow, ronald reagan's. on the other hand, you had the debt limit talks in 2011 where president obama in the middle of talks never, until this day, has gotten specific. we don't know if he offered to raise the medicare retirement age. we don't know how much he said he would cut medicare and enact entitlement reform. so he did the opposite. he went into a serious negotiation not as a candidate but as the president and never got specific. it's one of the reasons we never got a big debt limit deal. so i think mitt romney actually is following the reagan pattern. the question is who when it comes to real negotiation with congress will follow through and get it done. i think mitt romney would be stronger at that. the president, if he could have done it, would have done it. >> secretary reish -- >> let me -- with due respect, with due respect to mr. fleischer, the fact is when ronald reagan was running we didn't have the kind of budget deficit we have right now. it's very -- >> that's not the point. >> you cannot
successful pattern to follow, ronald reagan's. on the other hand, you had the debt limit talks in 2011 where president obama in the middle of talks never, until this day, has gotten specific. we don't know if he offered to raise the medicare retirement age. we don't know how much he said he would cut medicare and enact entitlement reform. so he did the opposite. he went into a serious negotiation not as a candidate but as the president and never got specific. it's one of the reasons we never...
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Oct 4, 2012
10/12
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what i do is the same way that tip o'neil and ronald reagan worked together some years ago, when ronald reagan ran for office he laid out the principles he was going to foster. he said he was going to lower tax rates. he said he was going to broaden the base. you said the same thing. you're going to simplify the tax code, broaden the base. those are my principles i want to bring down the tax burden on middle-income families and i want to work with congress to say what are the various ways we can wring down deductions. one way would be to have a single number. make up a number, $25,000, $50,000. anybody can have deduction up to that amount. and then that number disappears for high-income people. that's one way one could do it. one could follow bowles-simpson and take deduction by deduction. there are alternatives to pleas the objective i have which is tow bring down rates, broaden the base, simplify the code, and create incentives for growth. with regards to health care, you had remarkable details with regard to my reexisting conditions plan. you obviously studied up on my plan. in fact
what i do is the same way that tip o'neil and ronald reagan worked together some years ago, when ronald reagan ran for office he laid out the principles he was going to foster. he said he was going to lower tax rates. he said he was going to broaden the base. you said the same thing. you're going to simplify the tax code, broaden the base. those are my principles i want to bring down the tax burden on middle-income families and i want to work with congress to say what are the various ways we...
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Sep 28, 2012
09/12
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. >> so did ronald reagan. reagan 8 percent growth in his presidency. >> we are not debating ronald reagan. >> he had a worse economy than oba obama. he said he was inheriting it but he hasn't fixed it. we are seeing economic growth we are heading toward a recession and it's getting worse. >> we told you this yesterday stay stuned for that. right now it is time for your first degree weather update with janice dean who has more on the storms in the northeast. we don't care because it is friday. >> we made it ladies we made it. >> great through the northeast back to the ohio valley. hit or miss showers through out the day today. nothing severe in the forecast. you want to carry your umbrella just in case. across portions of texas and arkansas and ohio valley. we are seeing showers and much needed rain. we are in a severe drought situation. severe weather lifted through colorado yesterday. a lot of wet weather across the nation today. north of it that is where we are seeing the cooler drier air. >> jay leno was do
. >> so did ronald reagan. reagan 8 percent growth in his presidency. >> we are not debating ronald reagan. >> he had a worse economy than oba obama. he said he was inheriting it but he hasn't fixed it. we are seeing economic growth we are heading toward a recession and it's getting worse. >> we told you this yesterday stay stuned for that. right now it is time for your first degree weather update with janice dean who has more on the storms in the northeast. we don't...
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Sep 30, 2012
09/12
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think about ronald reagan. jimmy carter had a lot of great lines in his debate with ronald reagan in the 1980 debate, but ronald reagan kept saying there you go again. in 1984 walter mondale was beating ronald reagan. but reagan said i'm not going to let age be a determining factor, because my opponent is younger than me and less experienced than me. he used humor and well-timed phrases make a big difference in these debates. >> chris, joe raises an interesting point, the same point that matthew dowd raised in a national journal piece. in preparing for the debates, romney and president obama needs to remember that judgments on winning or losing are much more stylistic than substantive. the public isn't interested in getting more detail-specific policy, but in getting pointers about people on stage. when debates have moved in the numbers in the past, it's been result the impressions, mannerisms, style. is it going to be all about style trumping substance? >> he's partly right. he debates especially when you see
think about ronald reagan. jimmy carter had a lot of great lines in his debate with ronald reagan in the 1980 debate, but ronald reagan kept saying there you go again. in 1984 walter mondale was beating ronald reagan. but reagan said i'm not going to let age be a determining factor, because my opponent is younger than me and less experienced than me. he used humor and well-timed phrases make a big difference in these debates. >> chris, joe raises an interesting point, the same point that...
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Sep 29, 2012
09/12
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and start talk about ronald reagan. >> ronald reagan at this point in his president, 8% growth -- >> we're not debating ronald reagan -- >> he hasn't fixed it and now we see economic growth -- we're heading towards a recession. >> jennifer: we're heading towards a recession. consumer confidence is at a seven-month high, the s&p 500 is up nearly 15% year to date. but this is what fox news does when the facts don't confirm with their version of reality, they call the data skewed. >> it's very strange that big unemployment number seems to be skewed. the department may be becoming a bit partisan. i state on air, and the left goes absolutely bonkers and call me a conspiracy theorist. >> jennifer: maybe that's because you are. if fox news hosts don't like reality, they just make up their own version of events. >> the romney campaign has sent a lot of time asking a question from 1980. are you better off than four years ago, when any damn fool knows that in 2008 this country was in crisis. why would you pick that year as your fourth-year comparison. >> jennifer: i love it. really? lou dobbs
and start talk about ronald reagan. >> ronald reagan at this point in his president, 8% growth -- >> we're not debating ronald reagan -- >> he hasn't fixed it and now we see economic growth -- we're heading towards a recession. >> jennifer: we're heading towards a recession. consumer confidence is at a seven-month high, the s&p 500 is up nearly 15% year to date. but this is what fox news does when the facts don't confirm with their version of reality, they call the...
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Oct 6, 2012
10/12
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when you put machine up against ronald reagan. they will fail because it is ronald reagan. let mitt romney have his moment and applaud him and not try to tie him to the past buto. >> why do people say you need that phrase and sentence in a debate that can be remembered for people going forward for the generation toz come. why do you have to have that pivotal moment. >> they are the game changer. whether the age issue with mondale there you go again . are you better off today than you are four years ago in great moments. different time and place that we are in than we were back in 1980 even though there are many similarities. society is different today than it was back in the 1980s. and so we have to change and understand it from that view point. >> let me ask you going forward, what are your expectations as mitt romney prepares for his next big face off with the president? >> he can't have a down moment. i think what happened we see it in the polls. you see the polls change things are getting closer and mitt romney is in the lead. people saw them for the first time together
when you put machine up against ronald reagan. they will fail because it is ronald reagan. let mitt romney have his moment and applaud him and not try to tie him to the past buto. >> why do people say you need that phrase and sentence in a debate that can be remembered for people going forward for the generation toz come. why do you have to have that pivotal moment. >> they are the game changer. whether the age issue with mondale there you go again . are you better off today than...
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Oct 2, 2012
10/12
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but the thing he has to do is what ronald reagan did. ronald reagan in the 1980 debates pinned the economy on jimmy carter, and he kept litigating the case that jimmy carter had made every american's life worse. because of his failed economic policies. governor romney has to do exactly the same thing. he has to make the debate about the president's failed policies on the economy and convince voters that it was those policies that's made their lives a lot worse over these last four years rather than let the president blame earthquakes or the, you know, president bush or the tsunami or anything. jenna: i have some questions about style versus substance, big questions about likability. we're going to take a quick commercial break and be right back with you for some more tips on debating, right after this. h. but things are starting to turn around because of business people like you. and regions is here to help. with the experience and service to keep things rolling. from business loans to cash management, we want to be your partner moving f
but the thing he has to do is what ronald reagan did. ronald reagan in the 1980 debates pinned the economy on jimmy carter, and he kept litigating the case that jimmy carter had made every american's life worse. because of his failed economic policies. governor romney has to do exactly the same thing. he has to make the debate about the president's failed policies on the economy and convince voters that it was those policies that's made their lives a lot worse over these last four years rather...